"Maybe you're not getting what I'm saying, or maybe you simply don't care, but technicalities do matter."
Okay, try to follow along with me here since you seem to want to paint a picture of ME not listening: I NEVER said that technicalities simply don't matter. What I'm trying to convey is my sense of where our priorities should be and the effect that certain defenses have in the public eye, which is FAR more important in enacting good legislation than any court. Unfortunately the entire public isn't as well informed as you and I when it comes to the nuances of this stuff. What they're going to see/read/hear is that some people got some infringing files and one of the defense arguments was that several people were only sharing small bits of the files so it's okay. The average person is going to see that as it is: a technicality. The end result is STILL that someone illegaly received an infringing file. In fact, because the end result is the same, the public will actually be innoculated to sensible technical arguments that may have even more merit in the future because of the attempt to use this one.
"You seem to think that we should allow our government to take any action it wants"
You've responded to my comments in the past, so I know you know what I'm about, so please excuse me while I laugh my ass off at the notion that I'm in favor of our American government doing pretty much anything at all....
"Let's say for example that it's a felony to have 50 or more grams of cocaine. Let's assume that someone is charged because he had 49.9 grams. Under your theory, because the stated purpose of eliminate cocaine use is served, the guy should get a felony. I wholeheartedly disagree."
Incomplete analogy. The better way to look at it, IMO, is take your 50 gram requirement for felony status and put 10 people in a warehouse packaging up sevearl pieces of 60 grams of cocaine. When the DEA busts the place, they're ALL going to jail for felony trafficking. In your analogy, felony status to an insufficient gramage of cocaine is not something supported by ANYTHING I said...
"We should enforce laws only as written and we should not allow our government to act arbitrarily without legal authority merely to achieve some stated purpose."
We're talking about two entirely different things. You keep wanting to talk about how we're enforcing our current laws and holding the govt.'s feet to the fire, and I want to focus on how we get those laws off the books completely, rendering enforcement moot....
"And while they're not doing that, they're working on their conspiracy theories."
Ah, but a GOOD conspiracy theory doesn't require much work. It simply requires verifiable facts, a little critical thinking, and a pair of open eyes.
But I still appreciate that I'm worth the time you took to take a shot at me. Careful now, that high horse you're might give you a throw, and it's a looooooong way down....
"The law is technical and there is nothing wrong or immoral about holding enforcement of are laws to the letter of the law."
That's all well and good, but the key to any law is its purpose. We see examples aplenty on the opposite side of this issue following the letter of the law rather than its intent (patent law comes to mind, going through the steps required for patent law that have nothing to do with promoting the progress...). What it boils down to is that we aren't really in a war of ideas with the sentences written in the law, but rather what they stand for and the theories and assumptions upon which they are based. Change those theories and assumptions, and in effect you change the law in a way no technicality can.
"We're all in huge trouble when a chosen few in our country get to enforce laws that have never been written."
Agreed, but how do we effectively affect change to that respect? The simple truth is that people cannot be governed without their consent. Sometimes that consent is a reluctance to rise against an oppressive regime, but death and violence is always an option, so on some level a governed people must always consent to be governed. That means the way you affect true change is to change the minds of the people. I'm just not sure that playing the technicality card does that job effectively....
"I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen this argued elsewhere as well."
And I'm actually very thankful we haven't. If our ideas are meritorious, we shouldn't have to rely on odd technicalities like that. While technically they might be right, functionally it makes no difference and the results are the same. I'd rather work to get bad IP laws changed than have folks try to circumvent them via petty technicalities (unless of course my limited technical expertise is misevaluating this argument somewhere).
While I understand those that break bad laws, breaking bad laws isn't really how you get them changed. What you have to do is convince people that your message is just. I'd rather they use the laws of economics to convince the Court, and more importantly the citizenry, to alter or rethink the laws already on the books than just thumb their noses at the studios saying, "because you fucked up writing the law a little bit, you can't touch us! Nah nah nah!"
Because the truth is that if left unopposed by a critical mass of public retribution, they'll simply get the law rewritten in their favor. Meanwhile this ISP just comes off sounding like a petty 'tard....
...is how apathetic people are when it comes to their elected officials. I understand Lord (HURL!!!) Mandelson is now an unelected official, but hell, he was appointed by someone.
I'm kind of stunned at how few people can answer the simple question of who represents them in the Senate and House here in America. Even more so, those that CAN answer those questions most often know nothing about the people and policies behind the names they rattle off. Most vote for Republicans or Democrats because of their party affiliations, which is easily one of the most dangerous and idiotic things a person can do. Please begin to realize that the parties and their supposed "differences" are mere window dressing. They're no real, okay? They all have the same bosses, so they're all essentially the same.
People proudly say to me when I ask them, "Hey, I vote! I'm participating!"
You know what? Big fucking deal. You're SUPPOSED to vote, you idiot. You don't get accolades for shit that you're just SUPPOSED to do.
And btw, as long as the internet is busy rendering businesses obsolete, and since government is becoming more and more infiltrated by business...when does the internet begin rendering our government obsolete? How long before somebody works out the security and logistics so that every citizen has the opportunity to directly vote up or down on bills THEMSELVES, as opposed to having to send a rep to Washington or their state capitals to do it? If we're all about the democratic ideal, why aren't we actively working to implement it?
I hadn't heard it before, but I like it! Trip hop is one of my favorite obscuraties.
If you're into that kind of sound, definitely check out the Dust Bros. Fight Club soundtrack. It's one of the most interesting experimental albums I've ever heard....
"(2) Dumb-Ass Misogynist Walmart employees refusing to do something for a woman, based on the presumption in (1), only to relent and do it for her husband. "I'm sorry Mam, that's against copyright law and our policies...Oh, you're married? Just have your husband give us a call and don't worry your little head about it. Thanks for shopping at Walmart!""
Well, yeah that sucks that they act misogynist that way, but she could have just worn a Vneck shirt and used that shit to her advantage....
"Using your "logic", then, it is the height of intolerance for Jews to be intolerant of NAZIs? And yes, I *DO* compare OSC to NAZIs because of some of his writings about gay people *DO* call for extermination and confinement to camps, etc."
The simple answer is this: if you have to pay people to use your search engine (indeed, most products), then it's over, you've lost.
Google is Google because they're extremely good at what they do coupled with the fact that they have both a large number of dedicated users and the kind of name to product recognition that other companies salivate over. While it's not done globaly, how many people do you know who, when referring to conducting an internet search, simply say they are going to "Google" it? It's like people that call all sodas Coke.
It's going to take something far more disruptive than mere monetary bribes to dethrone the Goog.
I suggest BJs, they work wonders on politicians....
"In other words, it would allow the government to basically deputize anyone they wanted (such as record labels...) with near complete power and little oversight"
And it's been a beautiful day here at the Corporatism 500. As we head into the final leg of the race, the contest is a close one going into the 400th lap. Recently the South Korean car had made a strong push into first place inhead of Team America, but just when the Koreans thought their lead was sound, here comes the UK with a surge to lead the pack!
Uh, wait folks, apparently there is some guy in an oversized black helmet waving the caution flag and spitting on the cars as the go past. Well, this is a Corporatism 500 first!
"Be sure to read his anti-gay-marriage screeds for just a taste of it."
Er, that's not being self-righteous. It's being a good Mormon. I don't happen to agree with his stance, nor am I blind to some of the problems I see in Mormonism, but to compare that as self-righteous with some cooze running around using questionable tactics to bilk money out of people is kind of ridiculous. He posted an opinion that happns to be in line with his religion. This ho-bag is suing people....big difference.
"He writes ONE book which is to teen geek boys as Twilight is to teen girls and suddenly he's untouchable."
Er, which of the 7+ Ender's Series novels are you referring to as his "one book"? Not to mention the Alvin novels, the Mayflower books, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 standalone novels and then his theater scripts etc. etc. etc.
Oh, and you clearly have no appreciation for good writing, nor an understanding of literary markets if you're placing his work in the Adolescent market....
That's actually reall good! I particularly laughed at the fact that nearly all of the stories had 0 comments :)
But in all seriousness, I'm working on coming up with some ideas for how writers can make a living writing, as well as posting some of my work online for free.
I'm hoping some torrent genius comes reading to help me put my work out via bittorrent ;)
RSS
Twitter
Re: (as Dark Helmet)
While I'm. Stoked that you think I'm mike, I've actually already revealed who I am...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nah... (as Dark Helmet)
"Maybe you're not getting what I'm saying, or maybe you simply don't care, but technicalities do matter."
Okay, try to follow along with me here since you seem to want to paint a picture of ME not listening: I NEVER said that technicalities simply don't matter. What I'm trying to convey is my sense of where our priorities should be and the effect that certain defenses have in the public eye, which is FAR more important in enacting good legislation than any court. Unfortunately the entire public isn't as well informed as you and I when it comes to the nuances of this stuff. What they're going to see/read/hear is that some people got some infringing files and one of the defense arguments was that several people were only sharing small bits of the files so it's okay. The average person is going to see that as it is: a technicality. The end result is STILL that someone illegaly received an infringing file. In fact, because the end result is the same, the public will actually be innoculated to sensible technical arguments that may have even more merit in the future because of the attempt to use this one.
"You seem to think that we should allow our government to take any action it wants"
You've responded to my comments in the past, so I know you know what I'm about, so please excuse me while I laugh my ass off at the notion that I'm in favor of our American government doing pretty much anything at all....
"Let's say for example that it's a felony to have 50 or more grams of cocaine. Let's assume that someone is charged because he had 49.9 grams. Under your theory, because the stated purpose of eliminate cocaine use is served, the guy should get a felony. I wholeheartedly disagree."
Incomplete analogy. The better way to look at it, IMO, is take your 50 gram requirement for felony status and put 10 people in a warehouse packaging up sevearl pieces of 60 grams of cocaine. When the DEA busts the place, they're ALL going to jail for felony trafficking. In your analogy, felony status to an insufficient gramage of cocaine is not something supported by ANYTHING I said...
"We should enforce laws only as written and we should not allow our government to act arbitrarily without legal authority merely to achieve some stated purpose."
We're talking about two entirely different things. You keep wanting to talk about how we're enforcing our current laws and holding the govt.'s feet to the fire, and I want to focus on how we get those laws off the books completely, rendering enforcement moot....
Re: Re... (as Dark Helmet)
Mac, picturing you fighting hordes of deranged scientologists ala Neo and the Smith clones in the Matrix brought one hell of a smile to my face....
Re: Re: What's truly stunning... (as Dark Helmet)
"And while they're not doing that, they're working on their conspiracy theories."
Ah, but a GOOD conspiracy theory doesn't require much work. It simply requires verifiable facts, a little critical thinking, and a pair of open eyes.
But I still appreciate that I'm worth the time you took to take a shot at me. Careful now, that high horse you're might give you a throw, and it's a looooooong way down....
Re: Re: Nah... (as Dark Helmet)
"The law is technical and there is nothing wrong or immoral about holding enforcement of are laws to the letter of the law."
That's all well and good, but the key to any law is its purpose. We see examples aplenty on the opposite side of this issue following the letter of the law rather than its intent (patent law comes to mind, going through the steps required for patent law that have nothing to do with promoting the progress...). What it boils down to is that we aren't really in a war of ideas with the sentences written in the law, but rather what they stand for and the theories and assumptions upon which they are based. Change those theories and assumptions, and in effect you change the law in a way no technicality can.
"We're all in huge trouble when a chosen few in our country get to enforce laws that have never been written."
Agreed, but how do we effectively affect change to that respect? The simple truth is that people cannot be governed without their consent. Sometimes that consent is a reluctance to rise against an oppressive regime, but death and violence is always an option, so on some level a governed people must always consent to be governed. That means the way you affect true change is to change the minds of the people. I'm just not sure that playing the technicality card does that job effectively....
Nah... (as Dark Helmet)
"I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen this argued elsewhere as well."
And I'm actually very thankful we haven't. If our ideas are meritorious, we shouldn't have to rely on odd technicalities like that. While technically they might be right, functionally it makes no difference and the results are the same. I'd rather work to get bad IP laws changed than have folks try to circumvent them via petty technicalities (unless of course my limited technical expertise is misevaluating this argument somewhere).
While I understand those that break bad laws, breaking bad laws isn't really how you get them changed. What you have to do is convince people that your message is just. I'd rather they use the laws of economics to convince the Court, and more importantly the citizenry, to alter or rethink the laws already on the books than just thumb their noses at the studios saying, "because you fucked up writing the law a little bit, you can't touch us! Nah nah nah!"
Because the truth is that if left unopposed by a critical mass of public retribution, they'll simply get the law rewritten in their favor. Meanwhile this ISP just comes off sounding like a petty 'tard....
What's truly stunning... (as Dark Helmet)
...is how apathetic people are when it comes to their elected officials. I understand Lord (HURL!!!) Mandelson is now an unelected official, but hell, he was appointed by someone.
I'm kind of stunned at how few people can answer the simple question of who represents them in the Senate and House here in America. Even more so, those that CAN answer those questions most often know nothing about the people and policies behind the names they rattle off. Most vote for Republicans or Democrats because of their party affiliations, which is easily one of the most dangerous and idiotic things a person can do. Please begin to realize that the parties and their supposed "differences" are mere window dressing. They're no real, okay? They all have the same bosses, so they're all essentially the same.
People proudly say to me when I ask them, "Hey, I vote! I'm participating!"
You know what? Big fucking deal. You're SUPPOSED to vote, you idiot. You don't get accolades for shit that you're just SUPPOSED to do.
And btw, as long as the internet is busy rendering businesses obsolete, and since government is becoming more and more infiltrated by business...when does the internet begin rendering our government obsolete? How long before somebody works out the security and logistics so that every citizen has the opportunity to directly vote up or down on bills THEMSELVES, as opposed to having to send a rep to Washington or their state capitals to do it? If we're all about the democratic ideal, why aren't we actively working to implement it?
Re: Re: Boo! (as Dark Helmet)
I hadn't heard it before, but I like it! Trip hop is one of my favorite obscuraties.
If you're into that kind of sound, definitely check out the Dust Bros. Fight Club soundtrack. It's one of the most interesting experimental albums I've ever heard....
Boo! (as Dark Helmet)
"as far as I know, the dead no longer have any incentives to create new content"
Obviously you've never heard of a ghost writer, have you?
Re: Stupid... (as Dark Helmet)
"(2) Dumb-Ass Misogynist Walmart employees refusing to do something for a woman, based on the presumption in (1), only to relent and do it for her husband. "I'm sorry Mam, that's against copyright law and our policies...Oh, you're married? Just have your husband give us a call and don't worry your little head about it. Thanks for shopping at Walmart!""
Well, yeah that sucks that they act misogynist that way, but she could have just worn a Vneck shirt and used that shit to her advantage....
Just sayin'...
Re: Re: Re: OSK (as Dark Helmet)
"Using your "logic", then, it is the height of intolerance for Jews to be intolerant of NAZIs? And yes, I *DO* compare OSC to NAZIs because of some of his writings about gay people *DO* call for extermination and confinement to camps, etc."
Citation?
The answer to this one is actually really simple: (as Dark Helmet)
Alright, let's try that one again.
The simple answer is this: if you have to pay people to use your search engine (indeed, most products), then it's over, you've lost.
Google is Google because they're extremely good at what they do coupled with the fact that they have both a large number of dedicated users and the kind of name to product recognition that other companies salivate over. While it's not done globaly, how many people do you know who, when referring to conducting an internet search, simply say they are going to "Google" it? It's like people that call all sodas Coke.
It's going to take something far more disruptive than mere monetary bribes to dethrone the Goog.
I suggest BJs, they work wonders on politicians....
The answer to this one is actually really simple: (as Dark Helmet)
The answer to this one is actually really simple: (as Dark Helmet)
Sigh... (as Dark Helmet)
"In other words, it would allow the government to basically deputize anyone they wanted (such as record labels...) with near complete power and little oversight"
And it's been a beautiful day here at the Corporatism 500. As we head into the final leg of the race, the contest is a close one going into the 400th lap. Recently the South Korean car had made a strong push into first place inhead of Team America, but just when the Koreans thought their lead was sound, here comes the UK with a surge to lead the pack!
Uh, wait folks, apparently there is some guy in an oversized black helmet waving the caution flag and spitting on the cars as the go past. Well, this is a Corporatism 500 first!
Caution! Caution! Danger Will Robinson!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You guys scare me. (as Dark Helmet)
We don't appear to be enemies at all. It would appear rather that we are compatriots ;)
Re: (as Dark Helmet)
"Be sure to read his anti-gay-marriage screeds for just a taste of it."
Er, that's not being self-righteous. It's being a good Mormon. I don't happen to agree with his stance, nor am I blind to some of the problems I see in Mormonism, but to compare that as self-righteous with some cooze running around using questionable tactics to bilk money out of people is kind of ridiculous. He posted an opinion that happns to be in line with his religion. This ho-bag is suing people....big difference.
"He writes ONE book which is to teen geek boys as Twilight is to teen girls and suddenly he's untouchable."
Er, which of the 7+ Ender's Series novels are you referring to as his "one book"? Not to mention the Alvin novels, the Mayflower books, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 standalone novels and then his theater scripts etc. etc. etc.
Oh, and you clearly have no appreciation for good writing, nor an understanding of literary markets if you're placing his work in the Adolescent market....
Re: Re: You guys scare me. (as Dark Helmet)
"Yeah I got something that will really scare you, I am setting you up on a date with Lily Allen ...."
Hey, c'mon on now...no one deserves that!
Re: Re: This is one of the many reasons... (as Dark Helmet)
That's actually reall good! I particularly laughed at the fact that nearly all of the stories had 0 comments :)
But in all seriousness, I'm working on coming up with some ideas for how writers can make a living writing, as well as posting some of my work online for free.
I'm hoping some torrent genius comes reading to help me put my work out via bittorrent ;)
This is one of the many reasons... (as Dark Helmet)
...that I deeply respect Orson Scott Card. He isn't just a ridiculously good writer, he's a hell of a human being.